but whoever is in office is probably 1 term because of the imploding situation and neither party will get real and objective to work for the American people.
This is the "NoBama" strategy, to let McCain take the fall so Hillary can win in 1012.
This bailout will likely delay the coming economic crunch. From a Democratic viewpoint, this would be horrible. It would push the economic pain well into the next Administration, thus making it look like the Obama presidency messed up, when in fact all the screw-ups happened under Bush.
Oh, sure, anyone with a brain would know better. But we are talking about the American public here.
If we are going to crash, then lets crash now and get it done with.
I sense this too and it seems like the GOP is responding to the ring wing Populism right now and the left is just ignoring what the people want, not just this but seemingly on a host of issues, at least Congress.
Thanks for the history timeline. I think it IS safe to assume that NSS (naked short sellers) have significantly contributed to our current collapse. All of the modifications in legislations and the various bills passed over the years seem to have been done in the interest of a select few. Prime example: Graham passing a bill that benefits UBS, then subsequently leaving the Senate to work for them? To be that calls an immediate probe to be investigated, I’m sure there is no coincidence. I will go further to say I would not be surprised if Graham and UBS had “talks” prior to his bill being passed. Is it also a coincidence that within 2 years after the down tick short selling rule was lifted, we’ve seen a substantial increase in NSS? We need leaders who act in the interest of the public rather than the interest of the elite( usually about 1% of the overall population). If you’re thinking it’s unfair.. you’re right, but such is the ways of the US government. I recently read another blogger’s perspective where he indicated that “The members grilling Messrs. Paulson and Bernanke are clearly unsettled and (in my view justifiably) angry. They can’t figure out why ‘this mess’ has come on them so suddenly.” Source I think this is all an act, a show for the public so they can appear as if this as caught them by surprise. But IMO they have been contemplating the very bill they want to pass for at least a couple months. If you control perception, you influence the masses.
I find a certain irony in that its conservatives that are lining up to protect the taxpayers in this manufactured crsis, and the usual democratic "leadership" once again lining up to roll over to the Bush administration.
Now I am not sure of the motivations of the right in this instance, but I am not wanting to look a gift horse too closely in the mouth at this point. They seem to be the voices of reason and restraint - Shelby, Pence et al.
McCain's grandstanding may actually help to inadvertantly scuttle the Paulson plan. I think he is paying attn to the various public opinion polls that show overwhelming numbers of the public are against this bailout and see this as a way to bolster the independent vote.
Obama did the usual democratic thing and didn't fail to miss an opportunity to lead - he is going along with the crowd rather than coming out in front with his own ideas.
Gentlemen, I think we are seeing the beginnings of right wing populism siezing the momentum of the populist movement - while the left is asleep at the wheel once again
Noquarter has the story (warning he is not exactly an Obama supporter!) The Acorn Poison Pill
in the draft (noquarter has this draft) it has direct a "percentage" of profits to Affordable Housing Fund and Capital Magnet Fund.
(versus return those profits back to the budget to the taxpayers).
Then, these funds has been funneling operations and the #1 group has been Acorn and another....La Raza and other "advocacy" groups.
I don't know about you, but having my taxpayer dollars be funneled into these organizations, I mean esp. La Raza man, the ultimate US chamber of Commerce, cheap labor illegal immigrant lobby...
Then in reading over the multiple, multiple state investigations on ACORN...
well, if this is such a crisis as claimed, it's astounding they would put something like that in this bill.
and they are giving them millions, now billions for for ????
Now if he would state a position on anything regarding putting US citizens, Americans 1st for jobs...when it comes to insourcing (displacement, labor arbitrage of workers through use of guest worker Visas/immigration system). Drives me crazy how these politicians completely ignore US Professional labor issues and he clearly knows that Oregon has had massive offshore outsourcing of jobs (which he will talk about) and Americans being displaced through manipulation of the US immigration system (which he won't touch with a pole, although that is the 3rd rail, damned if you do, damned if you don't). Anyway, this is the most forceful speech to date. I hope we see more of this, Merkley is a very good geeky policy wonk and he should show more of that asset.
I'll bet he is! Dollar falls etc. Bloomberg stats but this one is the horror show:
The three-month London interbank offered rate, or Libor, for dollars rose to 3.77 percent yesterday, the highest level relative to the Fed's target rate on record
What that means is no bank is loaning out anything to any other bank and the only ones lending are Gov./central banks...
So, this is the legitimate issue they are trying to address a complete freeze or lock up on the loan/credit markets.
I think Shelby is also saying this is the #1 critical issue to immediately address but I'm completely unsure if his alternative plan would do 'er.
I'm not so sure Paulson's plan would do 'er either.
It dissolved into a verbal brawl in the Cabinet Room of the White House, urgent warnings from the president and pleas from a Treasury secretary who knelt before the House speaker and appealed for her support.
http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20080926/ARTICLE/809260374/-1/newss...
In the Roosevelt Room after the session, Treasury Secretary Henry M. Paulson Jr., literally bent down on one knee as he pleaded with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi not to withdraw her party's support for the package over what Pelosi derided as a Republican betrayal.
I think the major point of consensus is trade. But removing the social agenda out of the picture, still creation of a new government agency is something I would imagine some would have to hold their nose on.
Although some of the libertarians I just don't know what they are thinking but I do believe I'm nailing down my problem. I few the government as something that is ours..whereas they view the government basically as the enemy. I think the consensus point on this one is currently...well, I can see their point!
I know on EP we actually do have some conservatives joining in and hopefully that will keep up for when one starts analyzing things logically and by causes, effects, results...the philosophy goes away a lot faster!
I have no idea if Shelby's or this new one on using loans and some sort of government insurance proposal will work.
That's what's really missing on all of this: analysis, objective, unbiased.
It's such a huge thing to analyze I'm not surprised experts couldn't immediately just "get right on that" and analyze the cause and effects of various proposals...
one of the reasons I keep pointing to the few that have been out there for awhile because they have been analyzed.
a difference between "clean government" conservatives and the "drown the beast" crowd? I think that populists have a lot of common ground with the clean government crowd, but it's the social issues that get in the way.
Social liberals honestly often have more in common with the "drown the beast" crowd then they do with economic populists.
And economic populists often have more in common with the clean government crowd than with the social liberals. It seems that although the people from the social liberals/neoliberals dominate the political discussion in this country, that a new majority can be found in the union of economic populists who differ on social issues.
But what happens if by some twist of political drama it doesn't pass? A 5 percent chance of major meltdown of capital markets in the US and around the world
Ok, here's my take. Almost no one thinks the Paulson plan and derivatives thereof is going to work.
Now I guess conservatives want some sort of insurance fund.
and yet another other economists again point to a HOLC type of agency creation to basically bail out the actual homeowners being foreclosed on so they are not foreclosed on.
I wonder if conservatives could get their head around that?
Their objections are different from others and I just hope they will admit to what works is what works.
because they are under investigation for voter fraud, misappropriations of tax payer funds.... and it's not just one incident....
I don't think this is a freeper attack but even if it is, they should not be directly distributing funds to any outside enterprise here....it should be official government agencies ...
about as bad as Paulson's plan to let a bunch of Wall Street CEOs oversea the buying of "assets".
What a mess. I understand why the conservatives don't want government...it's not philosophy I think, more they believe our government is completely corrupt.
also does a lot of work on foreclosure prevention, so this may be an effort to use that group to distribute monies that are going to be used to help refinance mortgages.
It's strange but ACORN's website is down right now. Coincidence?
Sen. Graham just came on FAUX and said 20% of the bill was going to ACORN.
Anybody know anything about this, if true?
It is true. Oh man, because they are under heavy investigation for fraudulent voter registration.
Well, I guess it pays to visit conservative land periodically to find out what's going on.
There is no way 20% should go to lobbyists organizations, I don't care if they represent the green little men from mars who are under represented....that has to go to a financial structure authority who is not involved in some major political agenda.
but whoever is in office is probably 1 term because of the imploding situation and neither party will get real and objective to work for the American people.
This is the "NoBama" strategy, to let McCain take the fall so Hillary can win in 1012.
Mmm..mmmm!
He's swallowed the koolaid. I don't trust anything he has to say.
However, he's right about one thing - this bailout may not be necessary.
This bailout will likely delay the coming economic crunch. From a Democratic viewpoint, this would be horrible. It would push the economic pain well into the next Administration, thus making it look like the Obama presidency messed up, when in fact all the screw-ups happened under Bush.
Oh, sure, anyone with a brain would know better. But we are talking about the American public here.
If we are going to crash, then lets crash now and get it done with.
I sense this too and it seems like the GOP is responding to the ring wing Populism right now and the left is just ignoring what the people want, not just this but seemingly on a host of issues, at least Congress.
Thanks for the history timeline. I think it IS safe to assume that NSS (naked short sellers) have significantly contributed to our current collapse. All of the modifications in legislations and the various bills passed over the years seem to have been done in the interest of a select few. Prime example: Graham passing a bill that benefits UBS, then subsequently leaving the Senate to work for them? To be that calls an immediate probe to be investigated, I’m sure there is no coincidence. I will go further to say I would not be surprised if Graham and UBS had “talks” prior to his bill being passed. Is it also a coincidence that within 2 years after the down tick short selling rule was lifted, we’ve seen a substantial increase in NSS? We need leaders who act in the interest of the public rather than the interest of the elite( usually about 1% of the overall population). If you’re thinking it’s unfair.. you’re right, but such is the ways of the US government. I recently read another blogger’s perspective where he indicated that “The members grilling Messrs. Paulson and Bernanke are clearly unsettled and (in my view justifiably) angry. They can’t figure out why ‘this mess’ has come on them so suddenly.” Source
I think this is all an act, a show for the public so they can appear as if this as caught them by surprise. But IMO they have been contemplating the very bill they want to pass for at least a couple months. If you control perception, you influence the masses.
I find a certain irony in that its conservatives that are lining up to protect the taxpayers in this manufactured crsis, and the usual democratic "leadership" once again lining up to roll over to the Bush administration.
Now I am not sure of the motivations of the right in this instance, but I am not wanting to look a gift horse too closely in the mouth at this point. They seem to be the voices of reason and restraint - Shelby, Pence et al.
McCain's grandstanding may actually help to inadvertantly scuttle the Paulson plan. I think he is paying attn to the various public opinion polls that show overwhelming numbers of the public are against this bailout and see this as a way to bolster the independent vote.
Obama did the usual democratic thing and didn't fail to miss an opportunity to lead - he is going along with the crowd rather than coming out in front with his own ideas.
Gentlemen, I think we are seeing the beginnings of right wing populism siezing the momentum of the populist movement - while the left is asleep at the wheel once again
Noquarter has the story (warning he is not exactly an Obama supporter!) The Acorn Poison Pill
in the draft (noquarter has this draft) it has direct a "percentage" of profits to Affordable Housing Fund and Capital Magnet Fund.
(versus return those profits back to the budget to the taxpayers).
Then, these funds has been funneling operations and the #1 group has been Acorn and another....La Raza and other "advocacy" groups.
I don't know about you, but having my taxpayer dollars be funneled into these organizations, I mean esp. La Raza man, the ultimate US chamber of Commerce, cheap labor illegal immigrant lobby...
Then in reading over the multiple, multiple state investigations on ACORN...
well, if this is such a crisis as claimed, it's astounding they would put something like that in this bill.
and they are giving them millions, now billions for for ????
but previous post is talking about future failures.
I like the idea of a buy out of the deposits only to avoid the FDIC, this was a clever move.
One way to shed toxic paper.
Now if he would state a position on anything regarding putting US citizens, Americans 1st for jobs...when it comes to insourcing (displacement, labor arbitrage of workers through use of guest worker Visas/immigration system). Drives me crazy how these politicians completely ignore US Professional labor issues and he clearly knows that Oregon has had massive offshore outsourcing of jobs (which he will talk about) and Americans being displaced through manipulation of the US immigration system (which he won't touch with a pole, although that is the 3rd rail, damned if you do, damned if you don't). Anyway, this is the most forceful speech to date. I hope we see more of this, Merkley is a very good geeky policy wonk and he should show more of that asset.
I'll bet he is! Dollar falls etc. Bloomberg stats but this one is the horror show:
What that means is no bank is loaning out anything to any other bank and the only ones lending are Gov./central banks...
So, this is the legitimate issue they are trying to address a complete freeze or lock up on the loan/credit markets.
I think Shelby is also saying this is the #1 critical issue to immediately address but I'm completely unsure if his alternative plan would do 'er.
I'm not so sure Paulson's plan would do 'er either.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/26/business/26bailout.html?ref=us
It dissolved into a verbal brawl in the Cabinet Room of the White House, urgent warnings from the president and pleas from a Treasury secretary who knelt before the House speaker and appealed for her support.
http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20080926/ARTICLE/809260374/-1/newss...
In the Roosevelt Room after the session, Treasury Secretary Henry M. Paulson Jr., literally bent down on one knee as he pleaded with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi not to withdraw her party's support for the package over what Pelosi derided as a Republican betrayal.
I think the major point of consensus is trade. But removing the social agenda out of the picture, still creation of a new government agency is something I would imagine some would have to hold their nose on.
Although some of the libertarians I just don't know what they are thinking but I do believe I'm nailing down my problem. I few the government as something that is ours..whereas they view the government basically as the enemy. I think the consensus point on this one is currently...well, I can see their point!
I know on EP we actually do have some conservatives joining in and hopefully that will keep up for when one starts analyzing things logically and by causes, effects, results...the philosophy goes away a lot faster!
I have no idea if Shelby's or this new one on using loans and some sort of government insurance proposal will work.
That's what's really missing on all of this: analysis, objective, unbiased.
It's such a huge thing to analyze I'm not surprised experts couldn't immediately just "get right on that" and analyze the cause and effects of various proposals...
one of the reasons I keep pointing to the few that have been out there for awhile because they have been analyzed.
a difference between "clean government" conservatives and the "drown the beast" crowd? I think that populists have a lot of common ground with the clean government crowd, but it's the social issues that get in the way.
Social liberals honestly often have more in common with the "drown the beast" crowd then they do with economic populists.
And economic populists often have more in common with the clean government crowd than with the social liberals. It seems that although the people from the social liberals/neoliberals dominate the political discussion in this country, that a new majority can be found in the union of economic populists who differ on social issues.
wow
WSJ.
Ok, here's my take. Almost no one thinks the Paulson plan and derivatives thereof is going to work.
Now I guess conservatives want some sort of insurance fund.
and yet another other economists again point to a HOLC type of agency creation to basically bail out the actual homeowners being foreclosed on so they are not foreclosed on.
I wonder if conservatives could get their head around that?
Their objections are different from others and I just hope they will admit to what works is what works.
because they are under investigation for voter fraud, misappropriations of tax payer funds.... and it's not just one incident....
I don't think this is a freeper attack but even if it is, they should not be directly distributing funds to any outside enterprise here....it should be official government agencies ...
about as bad as Paulson's plan to let a bunch of Wall Street CEOs oversea the buying of "assets".
What a mess. I understand why the conservatives don't want government...it's not philosophy I think, more they believe our government is completely corrupt.
also does a lot of work on foreclosure prevention, so this may be an effort to use that group to distribute monies that are going to be used to help refinance mortgages.
It's strange but ACORN's website is down right now. Coincidence?
Sen. Graham just came on FAUX and said 20% of the bill was going to ACORN.
Anybody know anything about this, if true?
It is true. Oh man, because they are under heavy investigation for fraudulent voter registration.
Well, I guess it pays to visit conservative land periodically to find out what's going on.
There is no way 20% should go to lobbyists organizations, I don't care if they represent the green little men from mars who are under represented....that has to go to a financial structure authority who is not involved in some major political agenda.
is the measure of volatility. Might bet on that one for the short term. ;)
Pages